Cybill Shepherd: The Hollywood Interview

Actress Cybill Shepherd.


CYBILL SHEPHERD: THE COMEBACK KID
By
Alex Simon

If you’re a man (or to be fair, a woman) of a certain generation, odds are that Cybill Shepherd was one of those women that gave you some of your earliest, yummiest impure thoughts that left little question as to which side of the sexual fence you lay. Born February 18, 1950 in Memphis, Tennessee, this southern belle was named Model of the Year in 1968, and was one of the country’s leading cover girls when, after seeing one of those covers, director Peter Bogdanovich plucked Shepherd from the modeling world and made her an overnight sensation with her turn in his classic “The Last Picture Show” (1971). Shepherd’s portrayal of a manipulative small town beauty queen won her accolades from audiences and critics alike. Shepherd followed “Picture Show” with another terrific turn in Elaine May’s “The Heartbreak Kid” the following year, and scored big in another classic, Martin Scorsese’s “Taxi Driver,” in 1976.

But Shepherd has also had a Phoenix-like ability to survive some disastrous careers choices, such as turns in former boyfriend Bogdanovich’s legendary misfires “Daisy Miller” (1974) and “At Long Last Love” (1975), the former which caused the dissolution of The Director’s Company, a seemingly-can’t lose partnership between Bogdanovich, Francis Ford Coppola and William Friedkin, then the three top directors in Hollywood. In the late '70s, Shepherd left L.A. for a return to her native Memphis following her split from Bogdanovich, where she married and gave birth to her first child, daughter Clementine Ford. Shepherd didn’t appear in another film for four years, until the TV-movie “The Yellow Rose” in 1983, but hit paydirt with the seminal ‘80s TV hit “Moonlighting,” which also made a sensation of co-star Bruce Willis. Shepherd very skillfully reinvented herself as a glamorous comedienne, of the Carole Lombard mold, with her portrait of Maddie Hayes, a former model-turned-private eye.

Once “Moonlighting” ended in 1990, Shepherd followed with a string of feature films, some good (“Chances Are”) some not so (the ill-fated “Picture Show” sequel “Texasville”), but found redemption once again on the small screen in 1995 with “Cybill,” a semi-autobiographical look at Shepherd’s own life, with a screwball comedy spin that combined the antics of “I Love Lucy” with a daring progressiveness in dealing with women’s issues such as sexuality, menopause and childbirth that pre-dated “Sex and the City” by three years. It also got Shepherd (who co-exec produced the show) and her creators in continual hot water with CBS censors. That, combined with other issues discussed below, got the show axed by the network, quite unceremoniously, when “Cybill” was at the peak of its popularity. Never released into syndication, the first season of “Cybill” arrives on DVD September 16 from First Look Studios. Shepherd published her very funny, and very frank, memoir “Cybill Disobedience” in 2000, to big sales and warm reviews, many praising her for the warts-and-all portraits of herself, and those she’s worked with.

The past year has been another busy one of reinvention for Shepherd, whose recurring turn on Showtime’s hit series “The L Word” has earned her an entirely new fan base. She also has three feature films in the can, and a new website (www.cybill.com) to her credit. Cybill Shepherd sat down with us recently to discuss her remarkable career as one of Hollywood’s greatest continual comeback stories.

Let’s start off by talking about “Cybill.” I know it was semi-autobiographical. In the beginning, did you sit down with the writers and tell them specifically what elements of your life you wanted to include?
Cybill Shepherd: Well, it was a collaborative decision to base it on my life. The original series that I conceived as my comeback to television, was not at all like this. A woman had written a script, where my character had no female friends; all her friends were guys. So I said that I wanted two women at the center of this story. I want a great friendship at the center of this story, and I wanted my character to be different from Maddie Hayes, and from a lot of the characters I’d played in the past: all glamorous, and perfectly coiffed and gussied up. So I thought it would be great to have someone as my sidekick who would embody that, which would allow me to fall in the mud, take pies in the face, that kind of thing. Ultimately it would be Michael Patrick King, who was one of our writers, who said that Maryann was the razor, and I was the heart.

That was one of the things about the show that was so “shocking” initially was that your character actually had bad hair days, and was very de-glamorized. No leading lady had really done that since Lucille Ball.
Yes, exactly! I remember I called up (writer/co-exec producer) Chuck (Lorre) and said ‘Why don’t we have my character have her first grand-baby, and we’ll do an episode about that?’ He said “God, you’re so brave!” (laughs) We broke a lot of rules, and we got smacked down for it too, which is why the show didn’t run for as long as it should have.

Shepherd and guest star Morgan Fairchild in a clip from "Cybill." You broke major taboos for the mid-‘90s, in terms of how honestly you portrayed women. And this was three years prior to “Sex and the City,” which had the freedom to be on uncensored HBO, as opposed to a commercial network like CBS. The fact that you guys always pushed the envelope is what always kept me, and I’m sure viewers like me, interested. The Valentine’s Day episode, which was before Eve Ensler’s “Vagina Monologues,” I had come across this idea that Valentine’s Day was originally for “vagina.” So we went in with a very funny script about that, and the censors said “You can’t say ‘vagina.’” So we said to him, “How about ‘vulva’?” And he said “Okay.” And we’re all like “Holy fucking shit! Does he not know what that is?” (laughs) And he didn’t! So then we got in front of a live audience, and I go to the head writer and say ‘What if they don’t know what it is? Then they won’t laugh.’ “Well, let’s give it a try.” It was one of our highest-rated episodes and CBS said “Never do anything like that again!” (laughs) That will never be seen again on CBS. But it’s on the DVDs. That was the first nail in our coffin, really. We started to get buried after that. People started to really be over-vigilant. I was doing an episode on menopause, which is one of the funniest things to talk about in the world, and the network said “You cannot use any word to describe women’s biological functions except ‘Women’s biological functions.’” ‘So can we say “menopause”?’ “Yes.” ‘Can we say “menstruation”?’ “No.” ‘Can we say “period”?’ “No.” So during the first menstruation episode, we were throwing that shit around, like women do! So I said to the studio, ‘You’re going to have to go to the network, because I can’t do this episode unless I can refer to this in some way.’ They said “Okay, you can say ‘period.’” And that wound up being part of women’s health history and Time Magazine: the first time the word “period” was used in that way on network television. "Cybill" volume one DVD. You raise another interesting point. The woman I was dating at the time, we used to watch the show together, and she said to me “This is the way women talk when we’re together,” which most men never realize, that women can get every bit as down and dirty, if not more so, than men. No, they don’t realize that, and yes, we do! (laughs) It was the first time it had ever been done. You guys very cleverly combined that progressive sensibility with that of “I Love Lucy.” Yeah, it was my first chance to do broad comedy, and have the hair funny, and the shirt wrong, and the jeans that wouldn’t pull up over my butt. (laughs) Just like Lucille Ball: prior to “I Love Lucy,” she was a glamour girl, just like you were. And then she got “goofy” and reinvented herself, just as you did. Exactly, and that was my intention. If fact, there was a lot of criticism towards me, from one of the producers, who said that he was only trying to stop me from doing the “broad, Lucy-esque takes.” And the show was a hit! So we had to have a parting-of-the-ways because it was impossible to work with someone who was fighting you constantly because they had some sort of “Moonlighting” ideal that I had to be Maddie Hayes. You started out as a model, and for a majority of your career, you were a glamour girl, Maddie Hayes allowed you to branch out a bit, but did you feel objectified when you were younger, as if people didn’t really see “you,” only how pretty you were? Yes, also I remember seeing films like “His Girl Friday,” “My Man Godfrey,” and “Bringing Up Baby.” These women: Rosalind Russell, Carole Lombard, Katharine Hepburn, these gorgeous women, were falling down, doing shtick. And I remember thinking ‘I can do that, too.’ But it took forever (for other people to see me that way). I always felt that Maddie Hayes was a Carole Lombard character. “Moonlighting” was a throwback to that era of screwball comedy from the ‘30s that you’re describing. Well, actually when I first read the 50 pages of “Moonlighting,” I went to (series creator) Glen Gordon Caron and said ‘You know what you’ve written?’ He said “What?” ‘A Howard Hawksian comedy!’ So we ran those movies. We studied those movies. With Bruce (Willis) on board, and that incredibly fast-paced dialogue, it was magic. In fact, those scripts were so dialogue-heavy that they were the longest TV scripts written up that point, right? Yes, because we talked so fast, that’s why we had to put ends and beginnings on all the scenes. I remember the last episode of “Cybill” ended on a cliffhanger. Someone’s boat had blown up… It said “To be continued…” Yes, and it was going to be so great how we continued it in the next episodes. They said we weren’t picked up because our budgets were too big, which was a lie. It was really about our deal that we had with the network, and somebody had to bite the bullet, and the network wasn’t going to do it because they’d been paying for everything. The studio had gotten this amazing deal with the network, one that no studio will ever get again, where they didn’t pay for anything until the show went into syndication. So what does that tell you? It’s never going to go into syndication, because why would they want to pay the network better? I thought this show was going to be buried in the salt mines, so the fact that it’s finally going to be available on DVD, it really moves me. My representatives and I have been fighting for this for ten years. Was it just about the numbers, or was that just the final straw in addition to the fact that the show was making the censors nervous? I think it was primarily about the numbers, that the studio would have to pay back this enormous amount of money, and the conflict with the censors didn’t help. But it was mostly about the money, which it usually is. Sometimes people don’t do the right things, you ask them why, and the response is because they could. L to R: Eddie Albert, Charles Grodin and Shepherd in "The Heartbreak Kid." I interviewed Lauren Bacall last year. Like yourself, she’s a strong woman who spoke her mind, and it seems that, male or female, in this business if you speak your mind, you’re automatically labeled as being “difficult.” If you’re a wet noodle in this business, do you notice how they tend to rise quickly, whereas if you’re the sort of person who puts their foot down and says “Bullshit,” it’s a tougher road? Miss Bacall said that’s really been the theme of her career: having to reinvent herself after being penalized for standing up for herself. Is that the key to surviving in Hollywood, continual reinvention? (laughs) That’s really interesting, and I agree. It’s tougher if you want to be treated with respect. You have to get back up and start up the mountain again. There’s a great gospel song that goes “I’m goin’ up the rough side of the mountain.” It’s so ironic and sort of extraordinary, this year is my comeback, with “Cybill” coming out on DVD, and my role on “The L Word,” and gradually it’s started to pay off wonderfully well. I’ve built this whole new fan base. I got guest spots on two other shows, and right now I’m working on my third feature film. I’ve been struggling the past decade. I’m not saying I’m poor, but it’s been a struggle to find something interesting to do. A lot of people don’t understand that you can be financially solvent, but if you’re an artist, someone who thrives on the creative process, it’s devastating if you’re not allowed to use those muscles. Yes, exactly. And I really disappeared the last ten years. I talk at length about this in my book, actually. But yes, if you aren’t able to create, or find some outlet that’s a fulfilling way to create, it’s tough, it’s painful. Shepherd in her film debut, "The Last Picture Show." Let’s talk about some of your other work. When Peter Bogdanovich discovered you for “The Last Picture Show,” did you have aspirations at that point to be an actor, or were you satisfied being a model? No. I hated being a model, in fact. I felt that people treated me like an object. They’d be really nice at the beginning of the photo shoot, and afterwards it was like I didn’t exist. Plus, I was so curious. I wanted to study. So when I was modeling full-time, I also went to college, first to Hunter College, then to The College of New Rochelle, then I went to NYU, and whenever I’d get a job, I’d finish a few classes, and then I had to leave. My final year was at USC, where they consider me an alumni. I never got my full degree, but I loved learning, and still do. Shepherd in Martin Scorsese's "Taxi Driver." What was your primary course of study? First it was art history, and then English literature. What was the “Picture Show” shoot like from the point-of-view of a 20 year-old kid? Well, it was amazing. Peter was my first acting teacher, and I was surrounded by this extraordinary cast. I was completely unencumbered by acting lessons. Every model in New York wanted to be an actor, except for me. I came to Peter completely un-messed with and un-self-conscious, and he was brilliant. I fell in love with making movies. During the shoot, I wouldn’t go home. I would sit on the set no matter what scene they were doing all night long. When you think that Robert Surtees photographed that, the man who the Academy Award for “Ben-Hur”! And then my next acting teacher was Elaine May on “The Heartbreak Kid,” who said to me “We’re going to improvise.” I said ‘What’s that?’ I didn’t even know what it was. So I had great teachers.

Shepherd and Charles Grodin in "The Heartbreak Kid." When you did “Taxi Driver” was it just another job at the time you were doing it, or did you know you were all creating magic? Oh no, it was love, love, love, love! We all knew. I never wanted it to end. We all made five thousand dollars for the movie, and shot with this skeleton crew. I’ll never forget the scene riding around New York in one of those old-style, big New York taxis, with Scorsese in the front seat and sound man in the trunk and the photographer…it was just magic, like we were stealing it. I had the same feeling on “Picture Show,” too. When they were both over, I just wept. Shepherd with Robert De Niro in "Taxi Driver." What was Scorsese’s process with actors? He always told me “Do less.” He’s a great fan of Hitchcock, and I talked to him about that, Hitch’s famous line to actors was “Don’t put a lot of scribble on your face.” Jason Robards said that once, too, when we worked together. He said “Acting is with your eyes, remember, not your face.” And Spencer Tracy really invented that, didn’t he? Oh, absolutely! God, I had some amazing mentors: Orson Welles…I was there for the end of the greats, for a world that’s gone now. I don’t know why Peter Bogdanovich doesn’t have a show on TV every week where he just talks to people, because when he’s gone, it’s really the end of an era. This town is rough. There aren’t any filmmaker/historians left like Bogdanovich. No, there aren’t. We’ve still got guys like Scorsese, and Spielberg who are students of film, film history and history in general, but there’s this whole anti-intellectual movement happening in our country right now that trickles down into pop culture, and is evident in the films that are being made. They’re anti-intellectual, anti-thought. Yeah, I just saw “Hamlet 2” the other night, and I totally agree with you. Any final thoughts about “Cybill” arriving on DVD?
I thought “Cybill” was dead, and it turns out she’s alive. I had the chance when “Moonlighting” came out on DVD to watch all the episodes again years later and to comment on them. I found that nothing mattered except the work, and how brilliant it was, and thank you that I had the chance to be a part of it. When people start to see “Cybill” again, they’ll start to see that it was a great show, and the fans will have it back. And I’m back, not buried in a salt mine anymore in Utah!