Quincy Jones: The Hollywood Interview

Composer/producer/renaissance man Quincy Jones.


QUINCY JONES:
FROM 'Q' WITH LOVE
By
Alex Simon

Editor's Note: The following article appeared in the February 1999 issue of Venice Magazine.

Quincy Jones is to music what Steven Spielberg is to film. In a career that has spanned 50 years, Jones has been a musician, composer, producer, mentor, philanthropist and guiding force that has helped shape the music business, popular culture, and much of society's manners, mores and events as we know them today. In fact, Jones has led an almost Forrest Gump-like charmed life, utilizing his undeniable instinct for spotting raw talent in young performers, as well as his own talent innovations in musical composition and production, which has led him to collaborations and long-time friendships with everyone from jazz greats Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis and Sarah Vaughn, to all-time great Frank Sinatra, to rappers Ice T, Big Daddy Kane and Melle Mel, to rockers Marvin Gaye and Michael Jackson, to Presidents, Prime Ministers, and, yes, even his filmic counterpart, Steven Spielberg, with whom he produced the classic 1985 film The Color Purple (it was Jones who also discovered a talented young woman whom he cast in the film, named Oprah Winfrey).

Quincy Delight Jones, Jr. was born March 14, 1933 in Chicago, spending his first ten years on the city's tough south side. He and his younger brother, Lloyd, traversed the minefield-like landscape and managed to get out in one piece when their father moved them to Bremerton, Washington, outside Seattle, in 1943. In junior high, Jones took up the trumpet and sang in a gospel quartet, sticking with music through high school and earning a scholarship to Boston's prestigious Berklee School of Music. Before completing his freshman year, Jones was offered a spot in jazz great Lionel Hampton's band as a trumpeter, arranger and sometimes-pianist. Jones moved to New York where his reputation grew.

The imprint of the horrific things Jones witnessed during his early years stayed with him, however, most evident in his music for three groundbreaking films of the 1960's: The Pawnbroker (1965), In Cold Blood (1967) and In the Heat of the Night (1967). Jones also composed the theme for the hit 60's TV show Ironside, which was the first synthesizer-based pop theme song. Never before had music felt so "violent" in motion pictures and TV, laying the groundwork for the raw, violence-themed music of the rap artists whom Jones would mentor and produce twenty and thirty years later.

In addition to the aforementioned people and projects, Jones has recorded more than 30 albums of his own compositions since 1959, as well as producing for such artists as Lesley Gore, The Brothers Johnson, Michael Jackson (Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad), Miles Davis, and Frank Sinatra. He composed the music for the landmark TV miniseries Roots (1977), as well as organizing, producing and conducting the We Are the World benefit recording (the best-selling single of all time) in 1985. Jones has launched the careers of dozens of artists on his record label, Qwest Records, as well as publishing Vibe and Spin magazines, owning interest in radio and television stations around the country, was the producer of the hit TV series' Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, In the House, and Mad TV. Jones also executive produced the 68th Annual Academy Awards in 1996. In 1990, the documentary Listen Up: The Lives of Quincy Jones was produced by Courtney Sale Ross, illustrating Jones' life, work and friendships. Jones' other credits, activities and endeavors would more than likely take up every column inch of this magazine, so just trust us when we say THIS MAN'S DONE IT ALL!!

The other prevalent theme in Jones' work has been love. Described by pal Spielberg as "a spraygun of love," Jones' latest endeavor is the compilation CD From Q, With Love, set for release in time for Valentine's Day, February 9. The two CD set features love songs from 1966 (Sinatra's rendition of The Shadow of Your Smile) to the present, from such diverse artists as Michael Jackson, Heavy D, Barry White and Qwest Records' newest artist, Catero. The collection's origins are surprisingly humble: they began as a mix Jones made to listen to while traveling. Following a 40th birthday party he threw for pal Oprah Winfrey, Jones gave out cassette versions of the mix as party favors. The response he got from the party guests was so strong, he was encouraged to release the set to the public.

In spite of his prolific and legendarily successful career, Jones has had some rough spots in his life, highlighted by two brain aneurysms that nearly claimed his life in 1974, when he was at the peak of his career. In spite of his doctor's orders to slow down after the second, successful operation, Jones continued his workaholic pace and lifestyle. The past year has been a tough one for Jones as well. His younger brother Lloyd died of cancer last summer (From Q, With Love is dedicated to him) and just days before this interview was conducted, Jones learned his mother had passed away in Seattle. In spite of the pain and personal loss he must have been feeling, Jones indeed proved himself to be that "spraygun of love" that Steven Spielberg described: hugging, kissing, and touching everyone in his path. After a few minutes alone with Quincy Jones, it's easy to see why everyone from Miles Davis to Hillary Clinton could claim him as a friend. His effusive personality and genuine warmth make him a man you want to be around, and want to please. Here now is one tiny chapter in the Biblically-proportioned life of Quincy Delight Jones, Jr.

The thing I love about the new record is how effortlessly it blends genres, artists and periods of time.
Quincy Jones: I am so myopic with this record, I have no objectivity about it at all. I just know I love it more than anything I've ever done.

Love is a theme that you've obviously always been very preoccupied about.
You know what it is about, and I just realized it because I'm going to bury my mother in Seattle tomorrow, it really is about (her). I'm sure it's about that. She was hospitalized when I was five, and I never knew her, really. And I'm sure that feeling was intensified because it's all about the inner child, like John Bradshaw talks about claiming your inner child. I'm sure it's about that. And you've got to be honest about that as you get older, because you don't have time to bullshit yourself about it anymore! (laughs) All the relationships I've had throughout my life, up and down, good and bad, have all really been based on what I went through in my childhood. There were times when I'd just seduce, seduce, seduce, and then just run away once I'd conquered. And that was all based on that parent-child relationship. Whatever the opposite of Oedipus is, it was very much like that...I'm lucky though, because I'm in a wonderful relationship now, and it's beautiful. It astounds me though, that it takes you so long to get it together, man! But what Bradshaw said is right, I think. That it usually happens from nine to eighteen months, where you have a male and female caretaker, not necessarily mother and father, who nurture you, validate you, love you, help you identify yourself within the microcosm of the world and guide you--from nine to eighteen months! There really are two kinds of people: those who have had nurturing with their own parents, and those who haven't.

Do you think it's easier to learn to love as you grow older?
Yes. Yes, because number one, you learn to surrender, and most of love is about surrendering your ego, because when you fall in love, you do some stupid stuff, man! (laughs) I mean really stupid! The best couples are those that are already 100% complete people. Because most of the time, the people are trying to get you to fill the percentage e that's lacking in them. That's the first mistake we make. "I need somebody to help me fill up my deficiencies." I don't know man, I just hope and pray that God gives me the ability every day to say "Okay, I was wrong and my life would be better if I could do it this way instead of that way, and not get stuck in anything and just keep going."

You can almost trace your own personal growth through your music. If you listen to the soundtracks from The Pawnbroker and In Cold Blood, for example, that's raw, violent music. No love in sight.
Exactly! Raw, angry. Subconsciously I guess I was really angry. It's interesting though, my brother Lloyd just passed away last July and we always used to talk about this, because the rage...well, here's an example, my daughter has two sons, my grandsons, who are now in their 20's. She still says "I've gotta get home and take care of the boys' dinners!" And I'm going "'Boys'?! They're practically on social security!" (laughs) And that's the way it should be, you know?

How do you balance career and family and still be successful in both?
The word "nurture" wasn't around in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Neither was "cholesterol." (laughs) I've learned more as I've gotten older what nurturing is all about. I can't undo the things I didn't do for my kids. All I can do is say "I'm sorry." I thought I was doing a good job if they were sheltered, had some good food, decent clothes, that was my understanding. My father didn't have time to nuture us. There were eight kids, he was making $55.00 a week. I thought I was doing a good job, not understanding that they needed a lot more of me than what I was giving. But they all turned out pretty great. I still can't get rid of them! (laughs) The girls you never get rid of! (laughs) But they're all beautiful, just wonderful. We're getting closer and closer every day, because they're all realizing, too, that this is stuff you can't take for granted. When Lloyd died, it really hit them hard. They lost two uncles within two months. Peggy Lipton, my ex-wife, her brother Kenny died two months after Lloyd. It shocked them.

What did your brother Lloyd do?
He was Chief of sound at KOMO in Seattle. He was with them 28 years. He'd go on the road with the Huskies for the games. He was just a great, brilliant human being. My other brother is a superior court judge up there. It was just such a shock losing him.

You dedicated the album to Lloyd.
Yes. He's organically tied to the album because in '66 I brought him with me when I recorded Sinatra. He and his wife Gloria met there and they were together until he died. Theirs was the greatest love story in the world.

The album has the greatest variety of artists I've heard on any compilation.
Thank you. You know if you think about it, Frank was a phenomenon of the 40's, Elvis the 50's, The Beatles the 60's, the 70's were about Star Wars, and then the 80's was Michael Jackson. And I remember introducing Michael to Frank, and seeing them come together was like seeing 40 years of legends come together full circle. I've got a strong connection with everyone on that record. Patti Austin's my Goddaughter since she was four. Luther Vandross, we recorded him before anyone knew who he was. Brian McKnight, Tevin Campbell, who I recorded at 12, everyone. It's funny I met Michael at 12, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder. Stevie's 48 now! I'm younger than him! (laughs)

Let's talk about your early years. When did you first realize that music was your calling?
I guess when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I sang with a little a cappella gospel group called The Challengers. A man named Joseph Towe put us together. He was a very elegant man, was a swing musician. I used to baby-sit for him for free so I could read his Glenn Miller book on orchestration. One thing led to another and I first picked up the horn in '45. I never stopped. I've been like a junkie, and orchestration is what I've always loved. It just fascinates me. Every band that came to Seattle, I just used to sit there right in front and lose it! (laughs) Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Barnett...Charlie Barnett came to Seattle when I was 14, and two dudes came out front and started playing. One was Clark Terry, the other was Maynard Ferguson. I almost had a stroke, man! I thought they were from Mars! The same with Woody Herman. When those bands came through, I just couldn't get enough. It was like dope, man. Pure dope.

When you joined up with Lionel Hampton in 1951, that was your first big break.
He actually asked me to join when I was 15 years-old. This lady named Janet Thurillo, a singer from Seattle, had been bugging him about getting me in the band. I was already to go and Gladys Hampton said "Get that young sucker off the bus! He's going back to school!" Then later on when I was in school back in Boston, they asked me again. I was there on scholarship and I said to the school "I'll be back soon." Biggest lie in the world! (laughs) I mean this band had Clifford Brown, Art Farmer, Joe Newman, Jimmy Nottingham, Charlie Mingus, Wes Montgomery, it was like a college. That band was almost like the first rock and roll band, really. He also loved modern jazz, so it was the perfect world. It also took me to Europe for the first time, which is one of the best things that ever happened to me.

That first trip to Europe was the first time you hadn't encountered any racism, correct?
Exactly. It was so evident, because all the conflict (in the U.S.) was always white and black. I remember we were in Oslo and it was so beautiful. It was almost unreal, not like the south side of Chicago. And these beautiful girls would put all their purses on the bandstand! 800 purses on the bandstand! I said "Boy, they wouldn't do that in New York. The junkies would kill 'em!" (laughs) This girl invited all of us to her house for dinner, saying her parents wanted to make us dinner. It was midnight, but we said "Sure," still feeling a little suspicious from what we knew in the States. So we walked to her house, three of us from the band and three of the girls. And this car pulls up behind us, like trailing us, with a Norwegian guy behind the wheel. So coming from the States, our antennae went off, and our hands go in our pockets, getting our knives ready. And the guy calls something out to us in Norwegian and one the girls runs over to him, and the smiles on both their faces were so pure and so beautiful, I'll never forget this. She comes back and we said "What?! What?!" She says "He wants to know if you want a ride over to the party." (laughs) It turned me around to opening up your soul to one-on-one, that whole trip.

After you formed your own band you went through some tough times, right?
Oh please, almost suicide. I came back to the States after Hampton and freelanced and paid my New York dues. Did everything imaginable. Worked for Bassie, Ray Anthony, Tommy Dorsey, everybody...it ended with my band and I being stranded in Paris, completely broke. I had to finally get a regular job as an A&R man for Mercury Records and they made me Vice-President two years later...I'm glad now I did the corporate route, because I learned so much. I wouldn't be doing all I'm doing now had I not done that. What turned me out of that world was they offered me a lot of money to stay on for 20 years. And that freaked me out, man. I said "20 years, that's my whole life!" I quit my job, got divorced, went to California. I had just scored one movie at that point, The Pawnbroker, and thought that I'd be able to write my own ticket in the movies--not quite! (laughs) I did one TV show called Hey Landlord with Will Hutchins. James L. Brooks, Garry Marshall, Ed Weinberger and Jerry Belson were all writers on it. Richard Dreyfuss was on the show. It was amazing. It's like it just happens. If I'd gone around the block twenty seconds earlier, I'd have missed it.

You just reminded me of the most profound thing you said in Listen Up when you were talking with Ice T: "Twenty seconds in the other direction for any of us, and we'd have would up in the penitentiary."
No doubt. We were this close, man. We did all the same things. We were the biggest thugs that ever lived. I was right at that crossroads, man. Thank God for music...Chicago was the breeding ground for gangsters, white and black. The best in the world. The fascination with violence that kids have now, that all started in Chicago. It's not new to me. Hip-hop is not hard for me to relate to because of that. My father was a carpenter who worked for these black gangsters named the Jones Brothers (no relation), and we'd walk over to see him at Drexel Food and Liquor. I remember walking up the steps, they looked so huge. This was in about 1938. The Jones Brothers did policy rackets...all the stereotype Elliot Ness stuff you with the hats, suits, big stogies and tommy guns, it's all true. There were a couple dudes upstairs (at the liquor store) behind a one-way mirror with tommy guns, man! I thought that was great, man! It's funny when people think that gangsterism and that kind of violence is something new. Chicago in the 30's makes Harlem and Compton look like Disneyland. We had to leave Chicago when the Jones brothers got run out of town.

Tell the story about Joe Louis and the pair of boxing gloves.
My father also worked for Julian Black, who managed Joe Louis, and we were given a pair of gloves that Joe Louis won in. Three doors down from me was this kid named Waymond who had this BB gun I used to dream about. I wanted it more than anything in the world and I traded the boxing gloves for that pistol! My dad came home and my little brother Lloyd said "Daddy, Dewie got a pistol." (laughs) My dad said "What?!" So daddy went back to get the gloves and came back with the woman who became my stepmother and my stepbrothers and sisters. Then we left Chicago right after that. Life's a trip, man, I'll tell you. Once I had those two operations and lived, I said, 'Well, God must be keeping me here for something."

Tell us about how those aneurysms changed your outlook on life.
They made me more of a workaholic! (laughs) I thought before I was going to live 'til 200, now I'm not so sure. I've got that clip in my brain holding things together, so I figure now I can work twice as hard. (laughs) But you know, now what I do really doesn't feel like work. It's a lot of time, a lot of energy, but it's an adventure, man! I don't want to miss any of it! What else are you going to do, go fishing in Colorado, or something? Hell, no! Life's too short for that.

Tell us about when you first came to Hollywood.
That was scary because I'd left the security of my corporate job and just seeing history unfolding before my eyes every day. I knew the Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Streisand, Brando, all these people before they hit it big. People say to me now "How come you only hang out with stars, man?" I say "Stars, my ass! I knew these people when none of us could afford a hot dog!" Harry Belefonte, Sidney Poitier, Ray Charles, everybody was payin' dues. They're just people I know from a long time ago.

Tell us about working with Richard Brooks (In Cold Blood) who I think is one of the greatest filmmakers of all time.
Richard used to say "We're all like a river, man. People cool their toes in you, throw their beer cans in you, swim in you, pee in you (laughs), fish in you..." He said "When we finish this movie we'll either be best friends for life or kill each other." We were best friends. He taught me how to use the Movieola (editing machine). Richard did something great. Truman Capote wanted Leonard Bernstein to do the music, and I don't blame him! Leonard was a genius. But Richard stuck to his guns and said "No, Quincy's doing this movie!" In fact, I suggested Scott Wilson to him. Richard would call me for advice before he'd call the actors. That meant so much to me, on a picture that big?! Please! Then after the premiere, Truman Capote called, apologized to me, was crying...it was beautiful. Richard had so much faith in me, there was no way I was going to let him down.

Tell us about Francis Albert.
This is his ring with the family crest that Tina gave me for Christmas. (shows the ring on his pinkie). I loved that man. But before we met, I was so in awe, I couldn't approach him. He was one of those people, you couldn't approach him. You'd just have to wait, man. (laughs) And you may wait all your life and nothing would happen. I never obsessed on it, or anything, but I would just listen to him and say "Damn! That's as good as it gets." So one day in Paris...Ava Gardner had told Frank I was living there, I don't know how she found out. So we went down to Monaco to play a gig for one of Grace Kelly's events and there he was, getting ready to perform. We met and I thought "Wow, he's real!" (laughs) But he was a bigger than life dude, man. He told me "Open with "Man With the Golden Arm," and keep playing 'til I go into "Come Fly With Me." So I had never worked with anyone that big before, right? I was used to starting up when the applause died down. So Frank comes out, all cool, we're playing "Man With the Golden Arm," people are just screaming, everyone in the audience you can imagine: Grace Kelly, Cary Grant, David Niven, Noel Coward. He stops and kisses and shakes hands with everybody. I'm looking at him like "Hurry up and get up here, man! The applause is gonna stop soon!" Not knowing who I'm dealing with here, right? (laughs) So he stops in the middle of the floor, takes out his gold cigarette case, lights it, walks real slow up on stage, hums the opening of "Come Fly With Me," sings it. My mouth is still hanging open, and just before the middle part that goes (singing) "...When I get you up there..." he takes a deep drag on the cigarette, and now there's just a pin spot lighting him, right? So he sings "When I get you up there, where the air is..." then he goes "raaarrrified..." and blows all the smoke out of his mouth! I had never seen anything like this in my life, man! He sang over the smoke! He was like a magician...I remember another time we were flying to Vegas and he said "You know, it'd be kind of kooky, man, if we could play 'Shadow of Your Smile' in the show tomorrow night." And I said "Do you know the lyrics?" "By the time you get the music, I'll know the lyrics." So he sat on that plane and wrote down the lyrics to that song 18 times on a yellow pad, force-feeding the subconscious mind. And the next night, the same song that's on the new album, he sang the shit out of it, man. Those are the moments you never forget. Some people played with him, some people worked with him, and some people like Steve and Edie and myself, got to play and work with him, and that was truly the joy of it.

You said that Dizzy Gillespie and Miles Davis were your two biggest influences growing up. Tell us about them.
Well, when you look at the evolution of the trumpet you've got Louis Armstrong, who begat Roy Eldrige, who begat Dizzy, who begat Miles along with the saxophone of Charlie Parker, and Clark Terry. Miles and Dizzy changed the sound of the trumpet. They were the Bachs and Beethovens of the 20th century. Please. To this day I play "Kind of Blue" four times a week. It's like Picasso.

Did you know Chet Baker at all? Was he influenced by Miles? They both had such a tragic sound and you could hear how much pain they were in.
Oh yeah, I knew Chet and he and everyone else was influenced by Miles. The thing is, the subtheme of the whole be-bop period was black musicians saying "We do not want to be entertainers anymore. We do not want to sing and roll our eyes and clown for people anymore. We want to be artists." And they lived accordingly. But the consequences were the (established artists) rejected them. But they didn't care and went on anyway, blazing a path that has never been surpassed in the 20th century. Kids haven't even begun to catch up to Miles, Clifford Brown, Charlie Parker, and Dizzy. Not even close, man! I don't give a shit if you've sold 20 million records. It's not about that. It's about the fact that they changed the course of music.

What's the famous quote, I think it's from the Bible: "A prophet is never recognized in his own time."
Absolutely right. And we didn't care about money, or two ounces of cocaine or having airplanes. We didn't care about that stuff. We just wanted to be as good as we could be, or close to as good as they were. We didn't care about numbers and money. That's a stupid goal, you know, fame and fortune. If you are pursuing it, it's a stupid goal. Sure we like hit records. But I have a line I will not cross. I know how to make a hit record, and I love when it's a hit, don't get me wrong. But I won't go over that line. There's an integrity you have to hold on to...I don't care how hungry the musician is, you could put $100,000 on the piano, write a hit, take home that $100,000, but the subconscious mind doesn't care about that $100,000. It doesn't care about whether it's bad, or good, it just says "Do the work." It's blind. That's what always surprising to me when people say they do this for the money. Because if you don't believe in the music and if it doesn't make your hair rise and give you goose bumps when you listen to it, how do you expect anyone else to? So to me, it's not the commerciality, it's the sincerity.

All the classic work from any artist is classic because it's honest, and that will always come through.
That's right, man. The real stuff is coming from a place of personality and commitment. They're not saying "Well here's what the audience likes and the demographics tell us this," this is what I like. This is what I feel. And I want other people to like and feel this, as well. So I feel good looking back that those things were always in mind, going back to '66, on this album.

What's in store for you in the coming millennium?
I just had a meeting with the First Lady yesterday and Steven Spielberg, George Stevens and I are going to produce the Millennium celebration for the Clintons. I had all these plans for being on a boat somewhere with some champagne, but Hillary blew that! (laughs)

Tell us about your upcoming CD-rom project, Microsoft Encarta Africana.
It's really got its genesis from the dreams of W.P. DuBois, 90 years ago. He wanted to have in one volume, all the information on Africa and African-Americans. Because when I was a kid, there was no black history...so we made a deal with Bill Gates at Microsoft and they're going to put it in Sunday schools and history classes and it's going to be awesome! 2.2 million words. 3,000 essays from Buffalo Soldiers to Colin Powell, everything. It's really great and something that was vital and needed. It's being released sometime in February. I know Gates is really excited about it, because no one's seen anything like this before.

Where do you see the future of the media heading in the 21st century, and where do you hope to see it go?
I think the writing's on the wall in a way. I'm not trying to be glib about it, but I think when Bill Gates put down a billion dollars for Comcast, that cast the die. Clearly the computer kings are going cable...it's fascinating. We have to be sure that the further we get into technology, the closer we get to spirituality. Even the scientists, I think, would agree with that. It's fascinating. I remember taking $27.00 and flying on a prop plane to Oslo in the 50's. Then the jet engine came and revolutionized the world. The next phase was satellites, cellular and fax. Awesome effects! That technology is everywhere now. And now, we're moving into fiberoptics, and the potential is really endless.

Do you think it will be easier for us to be technological or spiritual?
I don't think we'll have a choice, you're going to have to become spiritual to deal with the technology. Otherwise we're going to go crazy. Maybe my imagination is off the hook, but I always try to look at the subtext. I look at Dolly (the genetically-cloned sheep) in Scotland. I look at the 22 mice in Hawaii and the eight calves in Japan two months ago. You know what's next. You know it, man. And it's going to be something civilization has never dreamed of before. With genetic engineering you can alter 2500 characteristics, there's microchips now that can disperse energy, medicine, all kinds of stuff. It's going to be freaky, man! Spirituality is going to be number one in the place, otherwise this stuff isn't going to be able to happen. I can feel it. Man just cannot leave that stuff alone. They're always trying to play God. Computers are designed like the human brain. When I was dying I saw a tunnel of gold and white light and I saw a computer read-out, that's exactly what the mind is like, only the computer is now better at it than we are! There's always been something like that dealing looming in the future. Man's always dealt with it.